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JaspreetSidhu
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-06-2011
0

Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

[ Edited ]

Dear Seagate,

 

When I first read about the Seagate Momentus XT drive, I was ecstatic; finally, a drive I can install in my MBP without having to sacrifice performance (well, relatively speaking when compared to traditional HDDs) for storage capacity.

 

However, the honeymoon is longer over and I am no longer happy with my relationship with Seagate or its problem daughter, the Seagate Momentus XT drive.

 

Running a 2010 MBP with a stock 7200 RPM hard disk (Apple OEM Hitachi GST rebrand), I would get anywhere from 6.5-7.5 hours of battery life for normal usage (browsing, word processing, excel, etc.).

 

After installing the Momentus XT (SD23 firmware), that dropped down to 5.5-6.5 hours, a significant drop, but bearable nonetheless (from various reviews online, I knew the Momentus XT was a power hog). However, I started to notice certain issues that I never had before... the spinning wheel, the drive continuing to spin up/down randomly/continuously, and random stops during video playback (all documented in other users' posts). At first, I didn't know what to make of this, just figured I was an isolated case, but as I continued to do research, I came across post after post, forum after forum dedicated to the various issues this hard drive had (even made the front page of Engadget!).

 

SD24 was supposed to be cure-all, a magical witch potion, a hodgepodge of trickery and engineering wizardry to fix all such issues. Unfortunately, that was not the case. Though many problems were cured, a few new ones arose: the random chirping (perhaps SD24 conjured up a magical flying animal within the internals of the drive) but most importantly, my battery life now dropped from 5.5 hours to 4.5 hours, perhaps to provide energy to the aforementioned bird, I'm not sure (not to mention the video playback issue still persisted).

 

However, I put my faith in engineers and other employees of Seagate (STX_NB) to fix these issues and low and behold, a few weeks later they released SD25.

 

Now, I'm not sure if they decided to remove the bird or not, or just silenced it, but that issue now seemed fixed (I think I've heard it, but again, not sure... it became such a regular occurrence that I tuned it out; now when I think I hear the chirp, I'm not sure if it's a real chirp or a phantom chirp that my brain is just expecting to hear).

 

I haven't had a chance to test video playback because I don't have enough battery power to actually run a test. On a safe boot into safe mode (no background processes, no extensions) with a 100% battery charge, I now only show 2 hours 37 minutes of battery life remaining (again, doing nothing, no background process within activity monitor, no random program hogging up CPU cycles, nothing).

 

This is unacceptable. Granted, this number changes based upon the whims of my Momentus XT drive deciding to spin up/down, but on average, I am now only getting 3 hours of battery life before having to plug in my MBP to the power adapter.

 

I've tried using HDAPM to modify the APM settings of the drive and have been able to coax another 20-30 minutes from the Momentus, but going from 7.0 hours of usable battery life to 3.5 hours of battery life (not to be repetitive) is UNACCEPTABLE (and I'm aware of the downgrade EFI option, but I'm sorry... I'm not willing to do that. I'm not sure if downgrading would fix this problem, only to cause more/other OS X / MBP related issues).

 

Apple laptops are no longer on the fringe of the notebook products. I'm not running some off-brand hardware with my own custom Linux kernel; I'm using an Apple unibody MBP (2010) with OS X (10.6.7). I do not and cannot understand why rigorous quality testing would not include Apple products.

 

Prior to my experience with the Seagate Momentus XT, I have, (maybe) twice to three times previously upgraded a hard drive's firmware (I’m not saying other manufacturers do not release firmware updates, I’m saying that I’ve never been in a situation where I needed to update  even if a firmware update existed (if it’s not broke, don’t fix it rule)).  

 

I'm tired of having to do this much work to make my hard drive work. I shouldn't have to troll forums, download third party power management utilities and "hack" my hard drive to work, I simply shouldn't have to.

 

I am way past my 30-day return date and do not wish to "troubleshoot" this drive any longer. Could a mod or a Seagate employee please contact me and let me know how I may go about getting a refund from Seagate.

 

In turn, I'll be happy to secure-wipe my drive and send it back to you (magical, chirping bird included).

 

 

Sincerely,

 

-Jaspreet Sidhu

Byte
JaspreetSidhu
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-06-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

[ Edited ]

Hardware Overview:

 

  Model Name: MacBook Pro

  Model Identifier: MacBookPro5,5

  Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo

  Processor Speed: 2.53 GHz

  Number Of Processors: 1

  Total Number Of Cores: 2

  L2 Cache: 3 MB

  Memory: 8 GB

  Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz

  Boot ROM Version: MBP55.00AC.B03

  SMC Version (system): 1.47f2

  Sudden Motion Sensor:

  State: Enabled

 

 

 

ST95005620AS:

 

  Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)

  Model: ST95005620AS                            

  Revision: SD25    

  Native Command Queuing: Yes

  Queue Depth: 32

  Removable Media: No

  Detachable Drive: No

  BSD Name: disk0

  Rotational Rate: 7200

  Medium Type: Rotational

  Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)

  S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified

 

SMART values see http://postimage.org/image/2713jss84/

 

Also attached as JPG

 

Byte
ivyesq1906
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

[ Edited ]

yeah i totally agree... over the last couple of weeks, i've spent way too much time online and on forums trying to get this drive to work. i've never had such problems with a hard drive... i guess you get what you pay for. if you want a solid state drive, then you have to pay for a solid state drive. at this point, i rather pay extra money and lose tons of storage space and pick up one of intel's new 3rd generation solid state drives.  because of how much they cost, i can only afford to get the $320 120gb version or maybe an ocz vertex 3... that should be enough storage space for me for now because i'm only using about 60 gb on my momentus xt right now and am running windows 7 and mac os and have all my programs loaded.

 

i really wanted to give seagate a shot but like with many things, i guess you can't spend $130 for a quasi-SSD drive and expect it to perform like an actual SSD. my expectation was not that it would be exactly like a SSD drive but the beachballing, lags, battery life issues, beeps (i haven't experienced this), and all the other issues are unacceptable and at this point, worrying about the issues and researching them are distracting and counter-productive.

 

Could someone from seagate please email me and let me know what options I have regarding my momentus xt. can it be returned to seagate.  i am past my 30 day return period.  i've never had any issues with a hard drive such as this and because the hard drive is not performing in the manner promised or in the manner that a working hard drive should work, i think a strong argument can be made that the drive is defective and not suitable for the purpose for which it was purchased.

 

MacBook Pro 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (13-inch)

6GB Memory

Windows 7 64-Bit/Mac OS X 10.6.7 via Boot Camp


Administrator
AlanM
Posts: 6,539
Registered: ‎11-02-2007
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

ivyesq,

 

Please see here.

http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Momentus-XT-Momentus-and/SD24-Didn-t-Fix-Your-Issues/m-p/95448#M2475

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
--If you find a user's post useful, please mark it as an Accepted Solution and/or give it a kudo!

--We turn on ideas. Release the hounds.

Give a hoot. Backup your data on a second storage media.
Kilobyte
tgbushman
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎03-23-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?


AlanM wrote:

ivyesq,

 

Please see here.

http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Momentus-XT-Momentus-and/SD24-Didn-t-Fix-Your-Issues/m-p/95448#M2475


Seriously? THAT is the exact Customer Service people are having an issue with. This customer blatantly asked what are his options to return the drives or get different drives. Pointing him to the bug report so he can enter his data is NOT an answer. You won't answer his question and you are attempting to force him to work with you to fix your issue. Ignoring customers wanting to return these drives and hoping in the end for some magic bullet that will fix everything down the road may be in Seagates best interest, but NOT the customer's.

 

Let me give you a little story. True one. 28 years ago, I tried to buy some books in Walden Bookseller in the mall. I didn't have the cash on me at that moment, so I wrote a check out for them. The cashier told me he needed a photo ID. I was young at the time, I didn't know what he meant, so I looked through my wallet and found the first ID I could find that had my picture on it. It was my college ID. The cashier said "What is this? This is useless to me. I need a drivers license" and literally threw my card on the counter, it bounced off the counter and flew out partly to the mall entrance. I had to go retrieve my ID as the line of customers are staring at me, all embarrassed I pull out my drivers license, and he finishes my transaction. After it was done, I told the cashier that he didn't need to be that rude to me, and swore to him I would never step foot into a Walden Bookseller again in my life. In 28 years, I haven't. I had that bad of a customer service experience that I remember it. Congratulations. Seagate is now the second company in my 47 years that I will never deal with again. And THIS way of handling customers is exactly the reason why. You got my $198 plus tax and 5 weeks of R&D out of me, and during that time you have ignored me. Other customers are also feeling that way. Get your act together. Yeah, there are issues, and you have to have plans for how to handle dissatisfied customers. Ignoring them is not the way to go. There will be plenty more people like me who get so frustrated and angry at the way you handle them that they will go out of their way to deal with you in any way again.

Petabyte
WiseDrive
Posts: 473
Registered: ‎02-09-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?


What is wrong with just taking the drive back to where you got it from for a full refund?

 

An installation on a MacBook w/ bootcamp have multiple layers of issues that are very hard to debug, that is why Apple expect you to buy your stuff from them.

Byte
ivyesq1906
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

 


WiseDrive wrote:


What is wrong with just taking the drive back to where you got it from for a full refund?

 

An installation on a MacBook w/ bootcamp have multiple layers of issues that are very hard to debug, that is why Apple expect you to buy your stuff from them.


do you know of any store that takes returns for a refund after 30 days?  if that was the case, most of the people here wouldn't spend months on forums trying to get this fixed. i really wish best buy would let me return my drive so i can apply the refund towards the ocz vertex 3 that i want to get now. given all the problems we've had with this drive, i feel like we are deserving of refunds.

 

Byte
JaspreetSidhu
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-06-2011

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

Just bought a Vertex 3... also have a Vertex 2... plan on comparing them in a 2010 MBP to see if there are any real benefits to the Vertex 3 (since the limiting factor in the 2009/2010 MBPs is going to be that SATA 2 connection)…should know by Tuesday (drive being delivered on Monday).

 

After speaking with a Seagate representative, I was informed that Seagate is diligently working on this problem and in fact, they are getting no help from Apple. I inquired as why they couldn't take their know-how from previous collaborations (as there are Seagate branded Apple HDDs), and I was informed that previous technology/firmware was developed in tandem with Apple and is considered proprietary (even though Seagate contributed a significant portion); i.e. since Apple refuses to certify this drive, Seagate is left alone not only to figure out the drives issues, but also to decipher the Apple side of things as well.

 

Apparently, Apple uses custom firmware in otherwise retail drives that is more in tune with the MBP’s more aggressive power saving  hardware based features (unloading the head more frequently after a short idle period regardless of Energy Saver settings). Apple keeps this information a closely guarded secret (or, I’m guessing, just has a great legal department that prevents manufacturers from implementing a known solution into non-Apple partner branded drives). This is also the case for Asus I’m told.

 

To this end, I purchased a few OEM Apple drives; one 5400 RPM 750 GB  (Toshiba/Apple branded) and one 7200 RPM 500GB (Hitachi/Apple branded); I plan on keeping only one (want to see if there's any huge battery savings to the 5400RPM, otherwise, I plan on keeping the smaller 7200 RPM drive (I’m a speed enthusiast).

 

If someone is interested in the other drive, please send me a PM and I’ll sell it to you at cost (otherwise, I’ll just throw it up on fleabay).

 

Good luck guys.

 

Byte
JaspreetSidhu
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-06-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

"What is wrong with just taking the drive back to where you got it from for a full refund?"

 

Many issues weren’t apparent till well over the 30-day period. Also, figured that SD23, SD24, and SD25 would fix issues, not create additional ones. I gave Seagate a chance to fix the problems, they unfortunately weren’t able to (at least for me; apparently the Windows guys are doing just fine).

 

If you read my post, I love this drive except for the horrendous battery life. It’s fast, it’s quiet and if you’re a Windows user, perfect for notebooks. Unfortunately, this drive happens to fail in a certain number of MacBooks.

 

 

Byte
ivyesq1906
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎04-03-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

Lol! I'm dual booting windows and mac os with bootcamp... please let me know how i can get it to work "perfect" in windows... thanks....


JaspreetSidhu wrote:

"What is wrong with just taking the drive back to where you got it from for a full refund?"

 

Many issues weren’t apparent till well over the 30-day period. Also, figured that SD23, SD24, and SD25 would fix issues, not create additional ones. I gave Seagate a chance to fix the problems, they unfortunately weren’t able to (at least for me; apparently the Windows guys are doing just fine).

 

If you read my post, I love this drive except for the horrendous battery life. It’s fast, it’s quiet and if you’re a Windows user, perfect for notebooks. Unfortunately, this drive happens to fail in a certain number of MacBooks.

 

 


 

Byte
JaspreetSidhu
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎04-06-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

"windows notebooks...." eg Dell, HP, etc... non-Apple hardware... my apologies, but that does seem to be the case

Byte
danwat1234
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-31-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

You are saying that your Seagate Momentus hard drive is the cause of your laptop going from a ~6 hour battery life to a 3 hour battery life. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the drive alone to be drawing that much 5 volt current to detriment your battery life this much. If your macbook is the 15" version, it's battery is around 75 watt hours. As in, 75 watts for 1 hour.

If the battery life is cut in half just because of the drive, this would mean that the drive itself is taking as much power as the laptop did before!

So, if you had a 6.5 hour battery life before, 75 / 6.5 = 11.5 watts used by the macbook and old hard drive, and thus to have a 3 hour battery life, the battery would have to have a bit over twice that drawn to it consistently .. 75 / 3 = 25 watts for the laptop and Momentus hard drive.

 

So, where does the extra 12 watts or so of draw come from? Not from the drive. It might take as much as 1 or 2 watts more than your previous drive, but certainly not 12 watts. If it did, the drive would be literally burning hot, over 150 degrees fahrenheit and your laptop would be scorching from where the drive is located. Remember that power in = heat out.

 

Keep in mind that if you have the 17" MBP, then this power draw increase is even higher because the 17" laptop has a larger battery.

 

 

If your battery life results are accurate, their are 2 possibilities. 

#1. The Seagate Momentus XT hard drive is using more CPU cycles than your previous standard drive, which causes your laptop's CPU/chipset power draw to increase dramatically. 

#2. Your battery is getting old.

Byte
TazDev
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎05-04-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

or #3 the Momentus XT ist not able to sleep after inactivity on MAc 10.6.x and so its keeps on spinning and draining the battery.

Byte
danwat1234
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-31-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

No because even if the drive were theoretically sleeping continuously (not spinning) because the programs running on the laptop were not wanting anything off the platters or wanting to write to them, just the NAND flash being active , the difference in power usage from spinning continuously versus sleeping would not be more than 2 watts. Looking up the specs, when idle (servo arm is idle, drive is spinning), the drive typically takes 0.8 watts.

source:http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus_xt.pdf

 

 

Byte
cbl
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎03-28-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

Why is it that *lots* of us are seeing such drastic changes in battery life?

 

And why is it that putting the OEM drive back on the Mac takes battery life back to normal?

Gigabyte
lemon
Posts: 107
Registered: ‎03-23-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

 


danwat1234 wrote:

No because even if the drive were theoretically sleeping continuously (not spinning) because the programs running on the laptop were not wanting anything off the platters or wanting to write to them, just the NAND flash being active , the difference in power usage from spinning continuously versus sleeping would not be more than 2 watts. Looking up the specs, when idle (servo arm is idle, drive is spinning), the drive typically takes 0.8 watts.

source:http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus_xt.pdf


AAAHHH! Now I understand why my mac even drains it's battery when it is sleeping.....!!!

 

Byte
danwat1234
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-31-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

@lemon, no, the drive takes ZERO power when your LAPTOP is sleeping. No power is on tap in the SATA headers.. What is draining your battery while thelaptop is sleeping is the RAM modules because they have to stay active so they will retain all the data that was in RAM before you had it go to sleep.

Byte
danwat1234
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎05-31-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

[ Edited ]

@cbl, option#1 would be my guess but I don't know for sure

Kilobyte
SBMongoos
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎04-02-2011
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

[ Edited ]

I'm having a similar issue with an HP laptop I bought in mid March.  All worked fine and was getting 4-4.5 hours on the Momentus 500G 7200 RPM. Maybe better when doing simpler tasks.  After switching to the 500G Momentus XT my battery life has dropped considerably and I don't see that I'm doing anything different.  I'm lucky to get 1.5 hours now and that's only checking email and surfing the web.  I'm not confident that I'm even getting 1.5 hours.

 

When I got the XT I simply cloned the drive, installed it and continued on my usual path.

 

Mine has f/w SD26. Came with it on.  No idea what's going on and Seagate doesn't seem to think it's an issue when I called in and even said they hadn't heard anything about this.  Search this forum and the web I would say that's very inaccurate.

 

Also, after roughly two weeks I'm not seeing much performance gain over the regular 500G Momentus. Especially at boot up I'm not seeing any real change.

 

They are RMA'ing the drive and that was without much deliberation.

 

 

My laptop is set to sleep after 10 minute and hibernate after 360.  However, 99% of the time and do in fact tell Windows 7 to shutdown the laptop and since the XT installation have stood there and watched it shut off just to be sure.

Kilobyte
Bluesmanuk
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎07-30-2010
0

Re: Momentus XT SD25 horrendous battery life / refund?

I've been using the XT since they were introduced and prior to installing it I would get an average of 2 and a half hours battery life but from day one that reduced to 45 minutes.

 

I expected some difference because I was moving from 5400 to 7200.

 

I didn't quite expect such a drastic change but the payoff for the additional speed was worth it for me.