Barracuda XT, Barracuda, Barracuda Green, DiamondMax and other desktop SATA and IDE drives

[roger wolfe]

I just bought a new Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex DESK 2TB external HDD @ BestBuy on Black Friday (2010) for 89.99 + tax.

Up until now... I have read the Desk versions had the faulty [ST32000542AS] Barracuda LP 2TB drives.

I had the CC35 update ready (expecting this HDD)... but here's the catch.

When I ran the HDD Sentinel program to inspect my Desk HDD I bought (right out of the box)... this is what came up:

- Drive == Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Drive

- Size == 1.91 TB

- Usable Size == 1.82 TB

- Format == NTFS

- Model == ST2000DL001

- P/N == 9VT156

- Firmware == CC95

- Bytes/Sector == 4096 ... (4k Advanced Format ... not standard 512)

- Disk RPM == 5900 rpm

Apparently, it's a completely different drive... I THINK this is the Barracuda GREEN drive (not LP) ... but here's another problem...

The HDDs listed on the Seagate Barracuda Green drives are the [ST2000DL003] drives... not [ST2000DL001].

I thought this was an error... but there are some [001] drives being sold on the internet.

Also, the [003] drives have SATA-3 [6GB/s] speeds... and the [001] seems to only support SATA-2 [3GB/s].

Could any Moderator / Technician please give me some detailed specs (PDF file) on the [ST2000DL001] drive?

I cannot find it anywhere on the internet / Seagate tech pages.

These are the specifics I'm looking for:

#1) Does this HDD support SATA-3 [6GB/s] ... or is it a SATA-2 [3GB/s] ?

#2) What is the internal Cache amount for this HDD ?

#3) Is this HDD considered a Barracuda GREEN ... or Barracuda LP drive ... or other ?

#4) Is there a NEWER firmware update [post CC95] for this HDD ?

#5) I noticed this HDD is the 4k Advanced Format version (not standard 512)... and I am running Windows XP (Pro) SP-3.

 Does this HDD have a jumper pin installed to "fool" the HDD and keep it a single large partition to bypass the 4k Advanced Sector tables?

I cannot open this external casing without VOIDing my FreeAgent warranty to check and see.

This is something I am very worried about, because I do not want to run this HDD with SATA-1 speeds using a USB 3.0 adapter.

Thanks in advance.

[fzabkar]

I can't answer your questions, but here are the product manuals.

Barracuda Green (ST2000DL003, ST1500DL003):
http://seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/desktop/Barracuda%20Green/100649225a.pdf

Barracuda LP Series SATA (ST32000542AS, ST31500541AS, ST31000520AS):
http://seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/desktop/Barracuda%20LP/100564361e.pdf

Barracuda XT Series SATA (ST32000641AS):
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/desktop/Barracuda%20XT/100586689c.pdf

It used to be that you could discern the cache size and number of platters from the model number, but the new numbering system is significantly different. For example, the 5 in ST32000542AS indicates 32MB cache, and the 6 in ST32000641AS indicates 64MB. Both have 4 platters.

[fzabkar]

Section 2.1 of the Green product manual states that the I/O data-transfer rate for the ST2000DL003 is 300MB/s, which makes it a SATA-2 drive.

CrystalDiskInfo displaye the 512-byte data block returned by the drive in response to an ATA Identify Device command. This data block should include the interface specs. See section 7.18.4 (word 76) of the following document.

Working Draft ATA/ATAPI Command Set - 2 (ACS-2):
http://www.t13.org/documents/UploadedDocuments/docs2010/d2015r3-ATAATAPI_Command_Set_-_2_ACS-2.pdf

[Cantbecanit]

Roger, test it with Seatools, if you look in another thread I've posted about a fixed Maxtor 500 you'll see that Sentinal has reported faults that aren't on my drives, use the proper proggy and see what that says.

[roger wolfe]

Thanks for the replies.

I already read the manuals in detail... which is why I was posting... where is the [ST2000DL001] manual at.

Quote by "fzabkar":

Section 2.1 of the Green product manual states that the I/O data-transfer rate for the ST2000DL003 is 300MB/s, which makes it a SATA-2 drive.

Well, this isn't good... because we now have conflicting information about the ST2000DL003 GREEN drive. This PDF file (Nov, 2010) states otherwise:

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds1720_barracuda_green.pdf

Both files are from Nov, 2010... but there are several discrepencies between the two:

- Interface speeds differ between ... SATA-2 [3GB/s] vs. SATA-3 [6GB/s]

- HDD Length differ between ... 146.99mm vs. 146.00mm

- Power On to Ready differ between ... 15-sec vs 10-sec.

- Warranty also differers between ... Check w/ Supports vs. 3-years

Those differences aren't that big of a deal (except the Warranty & Interface)... but worth a heads up.

Quote by "fzabkar":

CrystalDiskInfo displayed the 512-byte data block returned by the drive in response to an ATA Identify Device command. This data block should include the interface specs. See section 7.18.4 (word 76) of the following document.

Working Draft ATA/ATAPI Command Set - 2 (ACS-2):

Thanks for the link.

The table(s) are on p132 of that PDF file, in case someone else decides to look this up...

For me, that has no real use... because I don't know how to send the command line to the HDD for data retrieval. If I knew that, I might be able to code it up... but why bother when there are many softwares already out there that analyzes the data for me.

[roger wolfe]

Quote by "Cantbecanit":

Roger, test it with Seatools, if you look in another thread I've posted about a fixed Maxtor 500 you'll see that Sentinal has reported faults that aren't on my drives, use the proper proggy and see what that says.

Thanks... let me DL and run the program.

I'll get back to you here in about 30-min.

[roger wolfe]

Okay... here are the results from SeaTools:

Date: 11/26/2010 @ 8:12:30 PM

Unit Serial: NA0JAVKW

Unit Model: Seagate FA GoFlex Desk

Model: ST2000DL001 - 9VT156

P/N: 9VT156

Serial Number: 5YD07L0Q

Firmware Revision: CC95

Cache Size: 32 MB

SMART: Supported and enabled

48-bit Address Support: True

Max LBA: 3907029169

Host Protected Area features: Supported and enabled

Mandatory Power Management: Supported and enabled

Security Mode: Supported not enabled

SET MAX security extension: Supported not enabled

Advanced Power Managment: Not Supported

Download Firmware: False

SMART self-test supported: True

SMART error logging supported: True

Current Drive Temp (C/F): 26c / 79f

Power-On Hours (Total): 2 hours

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... here are the results for Hard Disk Sentinel:

Interface: SAT Standard USB/ATA

Vendor Info: VID: 0BC2, PID: 50A1

Manufacturer:  Seagate

HDD Model ID: ST2000DL001 - 9VT156

Firmware Revision: CC95

HDD SNN: 5YD07L0Q

Total Size: 1907726 MB ... (1.907 TB)

Usable Size: 1.86 TB

Logical Drive: FreeAgent GoFlex Drive

HDD Cylinders: 3876021

HDD Heads: 16

HDD Sectors: 63

ATA Revision: ATA8-ACS version 4

Transport Version: unknown [S1020]

Total Sectors: 488378646

Bytes Per Sector: 4096 [Advanced Format]

Multiple Sectors: 16

Error Correction Bytes: 4

Unformatted Cap: 1907729 MB

Max PIO Mode: 4

Max Multi-W DMA Mode: 2

Max UDMA Mode: 300 MB/s [6]

Active UDMA Mode 300 MB/s [6]

Min Multiword DMA Trans: 120 ns

Rec Multiword DMA Trans: 120 ns

Min PIO Trans w/o IORDY: 120 ns

Min PIO Trans w/ IORDY: 120 ns

Nominal System RPM: 5900 RPM

S-ATA Compliance: Yes

S-ATA I [1.5 GB/s]: Supported

S-ATA II [3.0 GB/s]: Supported

S-ATA III [6.0 GB/s]: Not Supported

Power Mng't from Host: Not Supported

PHY Event Counters: Supported

Non-Zero Buffer DMA Offset: Not Supported

DMA Auto Activation: Not Supported

Boot Interface Power Mng't: Supported

In-Order Data Delivery: Not Supported

Asynchronous Notification: Not Supported

Software Setting Prevention: Supported / Enabled

NCQ: Not Supported ... !!!!!

Queue Length: Not Supported

The Following Are Supported:

- Read Ahead Buffer

- DMA / UDMA

- SMART

- Power Management

- Write Cache

- Host Protected Area

- 48-bit LBA Addressing

- Device Configuration Overlay

- IORDY Support

- 64-bit World Wide ID: 005000C5B329E6C4

- General Purpose Logging

- Error Logging

- Long Physical Sectors [8]

The Following Are NOT Supported:

- Power Up In StandBy

- Read/Write DMA Queue

- NOP Command

- Trusted Computing

- Streaming

- Media Card Pass Through

- CFA Feature Set

- FCast Device

- Long Logical Sectors

- Read/Write Verify

- NV Cache Feature

- NV Cache Power Mode

- NV Cache Size

- Free-fall Control

- Free-fall Control Sensitivity

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well... I think that's about it for HDD data.

I was digging around a little more about this HDD ... it appears there are my Firmware versions of this HDD:

CC93 // CC95 // CC96

Also, the HDD [ST2000DL001] appears to be a Seagate Barracuda LP series HDD... not the newer GREEN series.

Again... there is VERY little information about this HDD on the internet.

I hope someone from Tech can give more details about this drive...

[fzabkar]

I notice that HD Sentinel does not report the drive's cache capacity, whereas SeaTools reports it as 32MB. If this is correct, then SeaTools must be using a vendor specific ATA command. The standard ATA Identify Device command only allows for reporting a maximum cache size of 32MB - 512 bytes. This equates to a maximum value of 0xFFFF for word 21 in the ATA Identify Device data block.

Detecting Buffer or Cache Size in ATA Hard Disk Drives:
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=203631

SeaTools makes no mention of the drive's 4KB physical sectoring, so I'm wondering whether it is Advanced Format aware. HD Sentinel reports that the drive has long physical sectors, each being equivalent to 8 logical sectors. This suggests that software will still need to communicate with the drive on a 512-byte basis, but the drive will handle data transfers internally as 4096 byte sectors.

AISI, the relationship between physical 4KB sectors and 512-byte LBAs is as follows:

Physical Sector 0 = LBA 0 - 7
Physical Sector 1 = LBA 8 - 15
Physical Sector 2 = LBA 16 - 23
...
Physical Sector 7 = LBA 56 - 63
Physical Sector 8 = LBA 64 - 71

Microsoft Vista and Windows 7 will create 4KB aligned partitions by default. However Windows XP will divide the drive into logical tracks, each consisting of 63 logical sectors. This means that each 4KB NTFS cluster will span two physical sectors, requiring two revolutions of the platters each time an LBA needs to be written. This is because the whole 4KB physical sector is first read, then 512 bytes are modified, new ECC bytes are computed, then the entire 4KB physical sector is written back to the drive. OTOH, if each 4KB cluster is aligned to a corresponding physical sector, then the sector can be written on the fly.

If your external drive is preformatted at the factory, then I'm betting that it is already 4KB aligned. You can confirm this with Microsoft's Sector Inspector:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/SecInspect.zip

Extract the above archive to the one folder and execute the SIrun.bat file. The procedure will generate a report file named SIout.txt which you can then upload to a file sharing service. If the first partition begind at sector 2048 (a multiple of 8), then it is 4KB aligned.

FWIW, I noticed the following marketing-speak in the datasheet:

"Seagate SmartAlign technology delivers a new level of simplicity for Advanced Format 4K drives. While other Advanced Format drives require the use of additional software utilities during integration, the Barracuda Green drive with Seagate SmartAlign technology requires no extra time or steps."

I have no idea how SmartAlign works.

As for your concerns regarding the interface speed of 1.5/3/6 Gbps, I can't see how the difference between 3Gbps and 6Gbps would have any impact on the observed performance. A speed of 3Gbps is double the 144 MB/s maximum sustained data rate of the drive. In any case, typical external drives achieve a real transfer rate of only 20MB/s - 30MB/s via USB 2.0. Even if USB 3.0 were able to double that rate, the USB port would still be the limiting factor.

As for the Identify Device information, the meanings of these bytes will change with each revision of the ATA standard. Therefore, it is not advisable to rely on the software author's interpretation of the data.

Here is revision 6 of the ATA standard:
http://www.t13.org/documents/UploadedDocuments/docs2008/D1699r6-ATA8-ACS.pdf

CrystalDiskInfo will display the raw bytes, as well as the author's interpretation:
http://crystalmark.info/software/CrystalDiskInfo/index-e.html

After running SeaTools, you may also find a 5YD07L0Q.ATA file in your SeaTools folder. This 512-byte file will have your Identify Device data. If it exists, could you upload it to a file sharing service?

BTW, Google does not find any intermediate model number, ie ST2000DL002. I wonder if that is significant?

[roger wolfe]

Quote by "fzabkar":

"If your external drive is preformatted at the factory, then I'm betting that it is already 4KB aligned. You can confirm this with Microsoft's Sector Inspector:"

I cannot run the MSSI program to analyze my external HDD... the program only read my local HDD... even when launched from inside my external HDD directory.

Also, the program analyzes my local HDD as 1 unit... ignoring the multiple partitions.

"pre-formatted ... already 4KB aligned" ?

The HDD is 4KB (sector) size by default... not because of the NTFS (cluster) formating... but because that's how the newer HDDs are hard coded on the media layer/protocol.

Older HDDs are 512B (sector) size by default... in which the NTFS (cluster) format groups them into 4K clusters.

Another big difference between the 2 HDDs:

Older (512) starts writing Data on LBA 63

Newer (4k) starts writing Data on LBA 64

Since Windows XP "assumes" all HDDs are still 512B sector sizes... it starts writing data on LBA 63... which causes mis-alignment on the newer HDDs.

This results in VERY slow disk performances... like 2-5 MB/s speeds... rather than 30+.

That's why Windows XP users need to stay away from 1TB+ HDDs.

(I knowingly entered this troubling situation... no other option.)

------------------------------

Quote by "fzabkar":

"I have no idea how SmartAlign works."

Both the Seagate and Western Digital "alignment" programs end up "shifting" all the data on the HDD 1 LBA down the sector list/stack.

IE... rather than having the data start on LBA 63 ... it MOVES all the data on the HDD so that it starts on LBA 64 (correct location).

Of course... since I have Windows XP ... I either have to:

a) Use a jumper pin on the HDD to alter the Boot sector and "skip" 1 LBA sector.

b) Use a program (Seagate in this case) to shift all the data on the HDD 1 LBA sector.

Option B is better... but is an ugly process (takes a long time... depending on how much data needs to be moved).

If the HDD is empty, or only contains the OS... the process will be very quick.

That's why I was asking the Seagate Mods/Technicians weather or not this HDD [ST2000DL001] has a Jumper pin to fool my OS (easy/auto fix).

If not... I have no other alternative but to do Option B to fix my problem.

For other people with:

Windows Vista SP1+ ... or ... Windows 7 ... or ... Mac OS-X

you don't have to worry about this stuff.

------------------------------

Quote by "fzabkar":

"After running SeaTools, you may also find a 5YD07L0Q.ATA file in your SeaTools folder. This 512-byte file will have your Identify Device data. If it exists, could you upload it to a file sharing service?"

Sorry, I don't have any .ATA files generated.

Also, SeaTools lists the external drive as "NA0JAVKW"... not "5YD07L0Q".

FYI ... I just looked at the bottom of my external 2TB just now...

P/N == 9ZQ2N2-500 2TB

S/N == NA0JAVKW

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Question for the HDD Tech/Engineer people...

*** Using a 2TB HDD with Advanced Sector Format (4k ... not 512)

Q1) With Windows XP ... if I use the "alignment" program to "shift" my data to the correct sectors of this 2TB HDD ... will newer OSes (like Windows Vista / 7) read the data on this HDD correctly?

Q2) With Windows XP ... if I copy data to this HDD WITHOUT using the "alignment" program ... will the newer OSes read the data on this HDD correctly does to sector mis-alignment?

Q3) With Windows XP ... if I write data to this HDD (with & without re-alignment) ... move to a different PC ... then write new or overwrite existing data data to this HDD again (say with Windows 7) ... will it cause any data corruption?

Q4) What would happen in the reverse situation ... write data to external HDD from Windows Vista / 7 ... then read using Windows XP ... any corruption?

Q5) Are there any newer Firmware updates (currently CC95) for this HDD model ... [ST2000DL001] ?

Thanks.

[roger wolfe]

I just did some further reading today... and I found the answers to most of my questions:

Q1) With Windows XP ... if I use the "alignment" program to "shift" my data to the correct sectors of this 2TB HDD ... will newer OSes (like Windows Vista / 7) read the data on this HDD correctly?

If the newer Advanced Format (4k sector size) HDDs are already NTFS formated by the Factory (upon purchase)... there is no need to Re-Format / Re-Allign the drives at all.

The LBA already starts on #64, and everything is perfectly aligned.

Windows XP... and other OSes... can write/read data to the drive perfect fine without any slow downs / errors.

However... if you are using Windows XP... you can NOT re-PARTITION the drive... else you lose the proper alignments.

You CAN, however, re-FORMAT the drives without any issues (good to know).

Q2 / Q3 / Q4 ... already answered from the above statement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Q5) Are there any newer Firmware updates (currently CC95) for this HDD model ... [ST2000DL001] ?