Barracuda XT, Barracuda, Barracuda Green, DiamondMax and other desktop SATA and IDE drives

[AlanM]

(Since fzabkar is helping you so much, would you click on his kudo marker and give him kudos?)

[fzabkar]

I can't find any information on the CC35 firmware update. I suspect that it fixes certain bugs, or addresses performance issues, but that's only a guess. You would need to ask Seagate Tech Support.

As for UDMA 5, I see many references to this in other forums, particularly in regard to Intel SATA controllers. UDMA mode was originally defined for EIDE, but I don't know if it has any meaning for SATA. Perhaps if your SATA controller were configured in the BIOS for IDE mode, then UDMA mode would make sense.

In fact here is the Identify Device data block from a model ST32000542AS:

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/ST32000542AS/9XW0CXE1.TXT

Word 88 has a value of 7F. According to the ATA8 standard, this means that UDMA modes 0-6 are supported, but no UDMA mode is selected. Furthermore, word 63 (0407) is indicating that Multiword DMA mode 2 is selected, and word 64 (0003) indicates that only PIO modes 0 and 1 are supported. So it would appear that UDMA modes don't make sense for SATA.

Alternatively, could it be that your SATA controller is limiting the data transfer rate? Some motherboards have two controllers, eg Intel ICHxx and JMicron. If yours is one of these, perhaps you could switch ports to a different controller???

I don't know what is causing your clicks, but AFAICT your drive doesn't have a parking ramp.

I don't know what to suggest regarding Head Flying Hours other than to keep monitoring the value. If the Head Flying Hours and Power On Hours increase by the same amount over time, then I suspect that the difference may be accounted for by an initial non-zero value for the former. In any case, I have seen this discrepancy many times in many other models.

As for Wikipedia's description of the SMART attributes, these are not necessarily accurate. To my knowledge, very few manufacturers publish technical information regarding their SMART attributes. There is no standard, so manufacturers interpret the attributes differently, even amongst their own models.

[Mastakilla]

I have looked for a way to give kudos to him many times before, but never figured out how to do it...

Just now I accidently figured out... So I'll start giving him some massive kudos for his past work

I do advice to make it a bit easier (like mentioning the word kudo in the button )

ontopic:

I've been talking to Seagate support and I'll post an update about that here soon

[ILoveSilence]

Newly Hi all...

About sata controller,the  fzabkar's teory is in part don't accepted:

this screen could clarify what I want to express:

The active UMDA mode is 6 as UMDA supported.

Regards. I'm waiting for a new opinion.

[fzabkar]

The product manual specifies a maximum sustained data rate of 95 MB/s, so your drive is performing a little better than spec. The fact that the burst rate isn't higher than the sustained rate is strange, but I doubt that it has any perceivable performance impact.

[marcocod]

I bought two Barracuda LP 2TB and I have the problem of clicking noise. I tried to update the firmware from versione C34 to version C35 using the windows executable but the program said my HDs were not compatible with firmware C35.

However I'd like to know whether C35 firmware fix the problem.

I noticed that the absence of clicking noise when the HD is working (if I play a movie located on that drive, or if I'm doing some reading/writing test on it).

[Kleemo]

I just purchased Barracuda LP 1 TB and installed it into my NAS. Hard disk clicks every 20 seconds and that's most likely the reason why it doesn't go to sleep after 15 mins as defined in NAS.

Disk is vertically installed, I haven't tried horizontal yet. NAS is produced by Synology and in their forum there's a lot of similar posts of clicking (not only Seagate). One suggested that Linux is not fully compatible with low power / eco green disks.

  http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24607

But after reading this thread it seems like there are problems with Windows too.

Anyway, clicking is relating to LP disks? I don't know what to do... buy a new not-LP disk and try to sell the LP disk?

[fzabkar]

Do you have access to the raw SMART attributes inside the NAS?

If so, then record the SMART data, wait for 10 or more clicks, and then record the SMART data again. Any changes in the attribute values should help you identify the reason for the clicks.

[Kleemo]

Ok, my problem is partially solved. It has nothing to do with Seagate since I tested with an old Western Digital too and the problem persisted.

I managed to take a SSH connection into my NAS and from there I could see one process to trig periodically. Well, what to do with that process is another story...

Anyway, thank for the tips.

[Mastakilla]

As promised, below you can find you my complete conversation with Seagate about my issues:

6/8/2010 3:20 PM
Idle clicking of Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB HDs and real difference between CC34 and CC35 firmware

Dear Seagate,

The last few weeks I have been struggling to get my 4 Seagate HDs in order. I have done 3 RMAs with the web shop where I bought the HDs already and had a total of 6 replacement HDs, but still the problem is not clearly solved or identified yet.

http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Desktop-ATA-and-Serial-ATA/Idle-clicking-of-Seagate-Barracuda-LP-HDs-an...

Please read the above thread and all referenced sites thoroughly, as it contains all details and info you'll probably need...
Make sure to read it till the end, cause this is where the real questions pop up and also where I got closer to the answer...

I'll summarize the questions that remain below:
1) What is the REAL difference between CC34 and CC35 and why can't I update my 9XW HDs with it? (in other words: what is the difference between the 9XW and 6XW HDs) Would it be safe to force an upgrade to CC35 on all HDs?
2) Is our suspicion that "Seek Error Rate" increase is triggered by the "Idle Time Functions" (ADM, log file writing or Patrol Seeks) correct? And is it normal to have a "Seek Error Rate" increase when this happens?
3) Is our suspicion that the clicks during idling are directly related to the "Idle Time Functions" as well? Is it normal to hear such distinctive clicks if that happens? Can it be "solved"?

I know that these questions are not very obvious and probably need input from a very technical person. But knowing how many hours (and transporting costs) I already spend on this issue, I hope you'll take the time and effort to read everything thoroughly and honestly forward the question to someone who knows these kinds of things if required.

Thanks a lot,

Mastakilla

btw:
This is the case # that a friendly US chat support person gave me some days ago about some question related to the above:
#1016708


6/9/2010 4:59 AM
Information about CC35 firmware version
Mr. Mastakilla,

Thank you for contacting Seagate Technology.

There is a firmware update for this drive model, as you mention the new firmware version is the CC35 you can download it from our web site.

Please read the following knowledge base article first:

http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=213915&NewLang=en

Best regards,

Jesus V.
Seagate Technology

Created By: Mastakilla (6/9/2010 7:18 AM)
Dear Seagate,

If you would have read my case, you would know that your suggestion / answers wasn't even my question
If you would have read the forum topic I posted, you would know that I already tried upgrading the firmware with CC35 and that this only worked for 2 of the 4 HDs and that it didn't solve the clicking issue.

So please, this time, really read the complete case and forum topic before answering... please... I spend so much time in this issue to find an answer for me and other people having the same issue... the least you can do is at least read about my problem before answering....

Thanks,

Mastakilla

6/9/2010 11:44 PM
Firmware update for LP drive.
Dear Mr. Mastakilla,

The drives are clicking because they are recalibrating due to vibration, the reason they are only exhibiting this issue during idle is because the drive will only recalibrate when idle.

Doing a firmware update to CC35 should resolve this issue.

If it does not you should attempt to mount the drives in a different configuration, we have see using rubber washers can magnify the vibration.

I have attached an ISO image that contains the CC35 firmware update, you will have to burn this to a CD and then boot up to the CD to update the remaining drives.

If you are not failure with burning an ISO image you can get instructions from this knowledge base article:

http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=201431&NewLang=en&Hilite=ISO

Please let me know if there is anything else I can assist you with.

Best Regards,

Created By: Mastakilla (6/10/2010 4:14 AM)
Hi David,

Thanks for taking my questions a bit more serious already!

However it seems there is still some more reading to do...

As you can read in both my case comments and the forum topic, I have already tried to update all 4 HDs to CC35 with the bootable CD that you attached.

The firmware upgrade worked only for 2 of the 4 drives and question 1) of my case also why it didn't worked for the other 2 HDs and if it is ok (and advisable) to "force" a firmware update with the hack that fzabkar explained.

Besides that you can also read (in both the forum topic and my case comments) that the CC35 update didn't solve the clicking.

My HDs are currently in screwed tight in a HD case with normal screws (no rubber).
This HD cage itself is standing loose atm though, so I'll try if fixing it helps later this evening.
Also does a SMART read out trigger this same calibration? Cause when doing a SMART read out after idling for more then 5 seconds, I get the exact same click

So once more:
1) Thanks for taking me a bit more serious already
2) but please... please.. please... just read the complete topic and case / comments...

Created By: Mastakilla (6/13/2010 10:54 AM)
Hi David,

I just took out the HD cages. Tightened all HDs even better (4 non-rubber screws per HD). Then I tightened the HD cages in the case, made sure it is 100% level and re-checked for idle clicking...

They still do it

So I'm pretty sure that the problem I am having is not the problem you are describing (also, again, CC35 didn't fix anything)

Can you please read the complete post and let know if you know an answer to any of my questions?

Thanks!

6/15/2010 12:29 AM
Clicking when testing SMART on LP drives
Dear Mr. Mastakilla,

I have read the forum post completely.

At this time we are going to recommend that the update be applied to the 2 drives that were not automatically updated by using the "force update" method outlined by a user of our forum, these instructions are the same as we provide to customers when needed.

As for the clicking noise, because the lack of a performance or degradation of SMART data we are lead to believe that the slight clicking noise is a normal operational noise.

Lastly, please be aware that the LP series of drives are not made to or tested to be used in a RAID 5 array. They have and are supported in "Desktop RAID" meaning RAID 1 or 0 with no more than 2 drives. We do have a series of drives that are supported in RAID 5 and are available in 2 TB, you can find more information on them here:

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/enterprise-hard-drives/constellation-es/

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

Best Regards,

Created By: Mastakilla (6/16/2010 12:31 AM)
Thanks a lot for reading the topic David!
 

Just to be perfectly clear:
For the HDs that refuse to be upgraded from CC34 to CC35 the "normal" way, you recommend to upgrade them the "forced" way?
"1) updating from a bootable CD
2) Allow the update to fail on the first pass. Wait for the following message: "The system will power off after pressing any key..."
3) Abort the batch by typing Ctrl-C or Ctrl-Break.
4) Type the following line at the FreeDOS prompt:
FDL486A -m Hepburn -f HECC358H.LOD -i ST32000542AS -s -x -b -v -a 20
5) Power cycle the drive when the update is complete."

You recommend this, even though I get the following message:
http://users.telenet.be/Mastakilla/HDs/firmware.jpg

Actually meaning that the CC35 firmware contains a bug / is incomplete, right?

Please confirm this clearly (please also verify the command that I wrote... I don't want to give incorrect parameters)

Then about the idle clicking being "normal operational noise":
Did you check the youtube videos? Cause this "normal operational noise" makes a more distinct sound then my old 7200rpm HDs do. I can hear the clicks above normally playing music (so not silent or loud music, but music the way you normally play it)

For a silent / green drive, I was expecting a more silent operational noise...

Do you know the reason for this idle clicking? Is it a regular patrol seek to prevent to dust build up? Or are the weak heads that Seagate is using (suggested in one of the last replies of the forum topic).

And is there any way to prevent it from happening / reduce it? (modify APM)

About the Barracuda LPs not being REAL RAID HDs:
I knew that, but I find the price of REAL READ HDs extremely excessive (more then double for a simple firmware change and some more validation??)
I've read in some places that the Barracuda LPs do fine in RAID 5, that is why I wanted to try it, but I know that there is no guarantee to that...
Thanks for the remark / heads up anyway though

Greetings,

Mastakilla

6/17/2010 12:11 AM
Force flash procedure
Dear Mr. Mastakilla,

After reviewing and testing the force firmware flash procedure here on the same model drive you have there is a slight change that needs to be made to the procedure that was posted on the forum.

1. Burn as an ISO image and boot to the provided firmware flash ISO

2. The first screen you will see is a disclaimer and some instructions on how to proceed (Please read the disclaimer)

*If these drives have any data that is of value and that data is not backed up prior to attempting this or any firmware upgrade backup the data, if not then proceed.

3. When you are done you can press the [Esc] on your keyboard.

4. At this screen you will see options D-Z. On you keyboard press both the [Ctrl] + [c] keys.

5. Press the [Y] key on your keyboard to exit the batch file.

6. At the command link type in the following command then press enter on your keyboard:

FDL486A -m Hepburn -f HECC358H.LOD -s -x -b -v -a 20

At this point the firmware flash should start and complete.

Make sure to only have to two drives that you are updating connected to system when attempting to update the firmware.

Best Regards,

Created By: Mastakilla (6/17/2010 3:13 PM)
With your instructions, I successfully upgraded my remaining 2 HDs to CC35. I just finished some basic tests from the Seatools utility (SMART and both short tests).
It seems to work fine...

But of course the clicking is still there...

Can you comment on the following please?

"Then about the idle clicking being "normal operational noise":
Did you check the youtube videos? Cause this "normal operational noise" makes a more distinct sound then my old 7200rpm HDs during random writing. I can hear the clicks above normally playing music (so not silent or loud music, but music the way you normally play it)

For a silent / green drive, I was expecting a more silent operational noise...

Do you know the reason for this idle clicking? Is it a regular patrol seek to prevent to dust build up? Or is it because of the weak heads that Seagate is using (suggested in one of the last replies of the forum topic).

And is there any way to prevent it from happening / reduce it? (modify APM settings or something?) "

Thanks again,

Mastakilla

6/23/2010 12:58 AM
Dear Mr. Mastakilla.

If the drives are now updated to the CC35 firmware and are operating without errors this would indicate that the noise you hear is basic operational noise from the drive and there should be no cause for alarm. If drive failure is your main concern then I would recommend having a full backup of your important data in case of drive failure or disaster.

Please let me know if there is any other questions you have.

Best Regards,

David R.