Momentus XT, Momentus, Momentus Thin, MobileMax, and other notebook drives

[DKAIJ1]

I feel I have to tell other about my experience with Seagate Momentus XT 750GB 

When I use one of my 2 pcs ST750LX003 type in my 2 test computers -

then after more than 10 restarts - OS = windows 7, pro 64 bit is damagede according to result in logs.

After 10 - 20 restarts windows can't repair OS on HDD when booting from DVD, and that is a bad result according to my knowlegde.

IF i uses Linux as OS, , Ubuntu, Debian, or Suse it takes app 60-100 restarts

before I'm able to detect damages to OS when I look into logs.

When I do equal test as described above to Momentus XT ST95005620AS type,

I can't see any damage to OS, no matter how offen I make a restart,

When I do equal test to any other ordrinary HDD, I can't see any damage to OS. 

---------------------

So, I have only HDD issue when I use ST750LX003 type.

I have bought 2 pcs, serial's W2006Cxx, W2002Yxx,

and I have testet on 2 other, same result, so I do not think I have defective drives,  

I think the SSD part of the drive is causing those troubles, and only in ST750LX003 type,

since I can't detect any similar errors in other Seagate Momentus XT type.

I have tried to contact Seagate support several times during last 3 month, without any positive result.

Now I really feel Seagate handling problems with ST750LX003 type very bad, =  Seagate make a disappointing experience. 

I have tried to email, call and chat with Seagate support,

and last time I was told I a teamleader from seagate support will call me at my home number,

I did wait long time - no call from Seagate.

as info: 

I have filed at report from my last 10 test - named: Seagate issue, and this file is attached.

result from those 10 test = Seagate  ST750LX003 sucks.. 

------------------

To insure I did not have defective hardware in my testcomputer,

HP did exchange MoBo in my HP 8730w laptop with Brand new, ( warranty)

without any change in test result. 

I have tried to make clean install from a brand new windows package with SP1 - without big differances in result of my test. 

What can I do to get the needed help from Seagate ?????

--------------------------------------

How did I test. 

When doing a clean re-installing of windows from HP restore kit, windows 7, 64 bit

1 part of installation is done without any errors.

AS info, those HP restore kit, is build without Service pack 1

Afterward boot and update with several new boot caused by windows update,

then issue starts.– when Seagate Momentus XT 750 GB HDD are used,

Similar test with a Seagate Momentus XT 500GB, 1 generation, work as intended.

Issue is not in windows OS only, but more difficult to discover when using Linux Debian as booting OS..

As I understand this Issue / problem, issue is caused when some files are copied from ordinary HDD part, to SSD part – BUT OS still are able to access same files at the ordinary hdd part.

Somehow Seagate might have changed something in 2 generation of Momentus XT type,

since 1 generation of Seagate Momentus does not make problems at all.

I have used several computers to my test,

but when I uses those computers listed below, I'm able to make equal result in 10/10 test.

Hardware 1

HP Elite 8730w notebook workstation
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13092_na/13092_na.PDF
Model : VQ683EA
CPU Quad core 2.0GHZ
Ram 8GB
HDD - different types – from list
OS Win7 Proff - 64 bit

Hardware 2

HP xw4600 workstation,
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/12792_na/12792_na.PDF
Cpu Quad core 3Ghz
Ram 16GB
HDD - different types
OS Win7 Ultimate - 64 bit

HDD Used to test causing equal OS issue.

I have 2 pcs of ST750LX003 - and both are causing same problem,

tested in my 2 computers as decribed below.

HDD 1 Seagate Momentus XT 750GB type ST750LX003 - serial W2002Yxx

HDD 2 Seagate Momentus XT 750GB type ST750LX003 - serial W2006Cxx

From friends I have tried 2 pcs Seagate Momentus XT 750GB type ST750LX003 , causing same issue.

To insure my computers are able to work without any problems at all,

I have used those HDD as reference, and have done equal installation and update, no ISSUE discovered.

HDD 3 Seagate Momentus XTST95005620AS - 5YX01xxx

HDD 4 Seagate Momentus – 750GB

HDD 5 WDC WD7500BPKT-75PK4T0

In this test I have done a clean installation, updated windows 100% including Service pack 1 ,

and afterwards “cloned” from 1 drive to another, and then making 10 x boot

I have tried several cloning tools – without major difference in cloning result.

Or backup/restore afterwards.

www.acronis.com -

http://www.acronis.eu/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

1 boot after cloning ok, result equal to original disk .

2 boot - minor problems occure – windows can make repairs

3 boot - problems increase - windows can difficult make repairs

4 boot - problems increase - windows can not make repairs

..

10 boot – many different errors occure – windows is damaged. - and windows can't repair.. .

20 boot - many different errors occure – windows is damaged. - and windows can't repair.. 

I have tried to make clean install from a brand new windows package with SP1 - without big differances in result of my test. 

Conclusion:

The use of Seagate Momentus XT 750GB

is causing to many errors to be acceptable 

[Cantbecanit]

I think personally you are pointing the finger in the wrong direction, I notice both machines are HP, HP like Dell do all sorts of things to stop you upgrading, like custom FW in HDD and Opticals, you may even find you have a HP tinkered Bios as well,

So, before your conclusion is acceptable please test the drives with HD Sentinal and HD Tune, post the results and if they show the drives to be 100% then I guess it's a problem that lives outside of the 750,

The only other thing I can think of is you have bad power, both through the machines and possibly where you live also if you are in a remote area,

Just for the record I've owned a 750 for about 6 mths now and had zero hassle with it, maybe you do have a bad one, but that can be due to many things, dropped, bad power surging etc, and not being able to repair O/S isn't really a HDD thing, I think it's more down to how you use it, if you don't shut down properly each time you will get Windows asking to repair on the next boot, hth.

[DKAIJ1]

Hi, and thanks for you remarks. 

1.

I'm not sure you did carefully read what i wrote, since I tell I have equal issue on 4 drives. 

I have 2 pcs myself, but have tested 2 other in other computers. 

I live in a medium city, and have checked main Power before I did tell anybody of those problems.

other computer used. 

A - a Intel MoBo - D5400XS Extreme Series, - 2x 2cores Xeon, 8GB ram

same result with my 2 pcs of drives and my frinds drive, tested on my friends site - in a big city

B - a Fujitsu WS - with a intel 5500 chipset - 2x quadcore cpu, 16GB ram 

same result with my 2 pcsof drives and my frinds drive, tested on my friends site - village area

Before I did contact with Seagate I checked in several other computers - since I as technican have access to many other computers, but I feel it's wront to make permanent refferance to a customers computer, so thats why i did mention my HP as refferance. 

To your info, I most make repairs on High-end gear, so that why all is some kind of proff Workstations..

and have worked with computerrepair for almost 37 years.. 

Just as info.

Issue persist in Dell pressision , 390, 490,  and T7400 too. 

Issue persist in HP xw4400 , xw6400, xw6600 and xw8400

Common for all computers - HDD controlers used in my test are SATA II connections. 

HDD Seagate  Momentus XT - ST750LX003 accept this connection without any remarks.

but as info I have tested my 2 drives with a SATA III controller, 

ASUS U3S6, equal result, thats why I do not have mentioned this before. 

2.

Those programs you mentioned, HD Sentinal and HD Tune -

are both used to make test of the ordinary hdd = rotating part. 

Since I have noticed problem occure in boot where files are copied from rotating part to SSD,

I doubt those programs would be able to detect this issue. 

from my test log it looks like differant OS are able to get 2 place to find same file,

and this is my guess the most importend part of this issue.

Asap I get the needed time i will spend time to test with those programs you did tell about. 

[Cantbecanit]

Files aren't copied from HDD to SSD mate, the SSD bit is simply a cache to hold regularly accessed info to speed things up, as this seems to be all about Windows being unable to perform a repair, and the fact it needs to repair don't you think the clues point towards a wrecked O/S with missing files, and unless the drive is full of bad sectors the reason for the damage will be something you're putting on the O/S which is wrecking it,

Anyway I hope you get it sorted out ok, I can't sit here for days trying to figure it out because to me it looks like it just needs a fresh copy of Windows putting on it, do the drive tests to rule out bad sectors and if they come back 100% you need to re-format and start fresh,

I notice you say you've been fixing computers for 37 years, are you a former NASA employee by any chance?

[WiseDrive]

The Problem Determination Procedure used by the OP is flawed and conclusion not justified by the facts as presented. Go get a brand new, LEGAL, licensed copy of Windows 7 that is in a sealed box from Microsoft. Then try again.

[DKAIJ1]

you wrote

Go get a brand new, LEGAL, licensed copy of Windows 7 that is in a sealed box from Microsoft. Then try again.

In my first part you can read this:

I have tried to make clean install from a brand new windows package with SP1 - without big differances in result of my test. 

i can supply - with legal licens - no doubt. 

[DKAIJ1]

You wrote:

I notice you say you've been fixing computers for 37 years, are you a former NASA employee by any chance?

No,  sorry,  I live outside US

[Cantbecanit]

Get HD Sentinal installed on it and lets see if there is anything obvious that it picks up.

[fzabkar]

DKAIJ1, your complaints seem compelling. This begs the question, why haven't others reported similar problems? BTW, I can't see any attachment. Is that a problem at my end, or did you forget to post it? What kinds of errors are recorded in your logs?

Have you actually compared a corrupt file byte-for-byte with the original? If a particular bit is consistently being flipped, then this would suggest a PCB memory fault rather than a problem with the HDA. OTOH, if the bit errors were random, then this may point to an error in the serial data path.

As for your contention that SMART data exclusively reflect the state of the rotating media, that is not always true. For example, the End-to-End Error attribute monitors the data path through cache memory, and the UDMA Error Count monitors the SATA data path between the host SATA controller and the drive.

[DKAIJ1]

fzabkar wrote : This begs the question, why haven't others reported similar problems?

I have no idea why you can't read attached files. 

Let me explain more about what I have done to troubleshoot this issue, this might give other a clue to something i can use in my further test.. .

Since I started with Mainframe computers at that time where external storage was all kind of paper, and I have followed development in storage to what we have today with storage like a HDD, I have learned to study logs as a part of troubleshooting problems..

Logs can tell amazing stories how computers are running, with or without problems. 

How this started. 

In February this year, I did help a young guy to get a ST750LX003 fitted into his Lenovo G770 laptop computer.

Everything looks fine, just as intended, and I discovered how fast this computer was able to boot.

At that time my HP 8730w - was equipped with 1 gen of ST95005620AS, but since I uses other OS than Windows most of time,  I thought it could be good to get the extra capacity in 750GB instead of 500GB, and get a faster boot too.. 

When I got my  ST750LX003, I did clone from my ST95005620AS to ST750LX003 mounted in a extra HDD bay in the HP Advanced Docking Station (KP081AA),  A short test - nothing to worry about,  then I did exchange the HDD in the computer. 

My prefered OS is Linux, most based on Debian, and currently I'm using Knoppix, V.7.02 - for further info have a look at www.knoppix.com and after a while some errors was dicovered, Strange, since my system did not show this kind of errors before. 

Since most of utility are available in Windows versions, i decided to use some time working in windows, and collect further log results,  and as usual, I did make a copy of log short after boot as a batch job, and from this log I was able to notice increasing file reading errors. 

As result of those errors Windows Update stopped working. - Service was not running.- was the errormessage

I did not erase my old ST95005620AS after exchange- so it was easy to make a compare - drive to drive, and the result was alarming.

I was in email/chat contact with Seagate Support about this issue, and from the answers I got, I decided to get another copy of ST750LX003, to compare my result of this issue. My thoughts was to eliminate a defective drive. 

Again i did clone from my ST95005620AS to new ST750LX003 and after less than 5 weeks i was able to locate problem to BOOT time - and boot only. 

when I change OS - SSD part of HDD is not valid, and all files are read from Ordinary HDD part. 

after app 5 times booting windows, ST750LX003 have copied most used files from Ordinary HDD part to SSD part, and now errors while booting was increasing-

After 20 times boot in windows, was damaged to much, and I needed to make a fresh cloning from my ST95005620AS..

Now the issue was not fun, but a interesting issue to troublesoot - as a old tech I like to dig into a issue where I'm able to learn more. 

I decided to use my HP xw4600 as another test bench - since MoBo chipset is close in family,

( age and tech model)  to my HP 8730w, and when I discovered 

same issue at this second test bench, then I knew there was something I needed help to from Seagate and other to solve. 

Early in this process, I learned re-store from original os kit without SP was very difficult, so after a slipstream with SP1 added including needed drivers, it was usable to use, and it was good to compare to another computer, since the batchtjob installing OS as HP prefers done, is always equal from time to time. A good thing when looking for not expected errors.

Many chat and phone calls with Seagate support did not point out any specific to look for, since most of answers was - thats a Microsoft issue.. 

If it only was a Microsoft issue, why was I'm able to get similar problems in Linux ??? 

My guess, those guys only know windows, and MS is not always the most trusted since a lot of updates are needed. 

In Linux I was able to some further log info - since I'm from the log was able to get info about files was available at 2 places simultaneously, and when OS did try to access file many times a read error was result. 

One of the guy's from Seagate did confirm to me - it was not first time this problem hi called shadow copy of file - was a issue on this HDD model.  but most was located in MAC OS. and i do nothing in Mac. 

I did try to find further technical info about this new FAST BOOT system, but without positive results, and since my old  ST95005620AS was using similar  SSD technique without any problem - and difference between those drives are in SSD part ONLY, I think Seagate have some timing issues they need to solve. 

When I got the opportunity to test my HDD set in another computer i did spend the time, since I still look at this issue as a problem wich need to be solved, and all info collected can help to get a answer later.

In my shop I have more computers than my wife like me to have.. , so no amount is written..

but be sure I have tested a lot of computers according to this issue now. 

When I test computers where Intel chipset is y6x abc... in type -

like http://ark.intel.com/products/50086/Intel-Desktop-Board-DP67BA , or similar new from AMD like M4A77TD  do not get similar errors. 

From my understanding, it narrows this issue to some timing and how bios accept ST750LX003 HDD. 

Since nothing is told from Seagate in advertising stuff about where to be careful in backwards compability, 

I asume Seagate have tested ST750LX003 to spec from that time, and let people me and other to find any issue if some.

At least I expect Seagate after doing some test about this issue reported - make a new firmware avalibel - right now my drive uses SB12.  and this new firmware will solve this issue without destructible result in speed of this drive. 

Cantbecanit suggested to test with HD Sentinal and HD Tune, and I did answer, asap i got the needed time..

Now I can supply test is in progress while this is written. 

But as expected, those testtools are most to test the ordinary rotating part of a HDD, not the SSD part.

Drive 1 is tested in xw4600 - then tested in HP9730w afterwards

Drive 2 is tested in HP9730w - then tested in xw4600 afterwards

HDD tune ( free) - 1 drive passed without any errors,  2 drive in progress. 

I bought HD Sentinal proff.  - Except from reaching temp limit in a 12 hours test on drive 2, no errors noticed. 

On both drives a increase in raw reading errors was noticed while temp was increasing, 

and according to my knowledge this is normal..